Dr. Dave:

Well, this is an opportunity. So it's beyond just being customer centric. It's about being people-centric and I think that's what we're really trying to say here, is that if we want to be people-centric, we should really include everyone.

Lizzy:

Yeah. All right. It's time for us to understand... My humanity's beautiful regardless of what package I'm in. Your humanity is beautiful and our humanity is beautiful. And humans make the technical systems work. Humans build the products. Humans consume the products. We talk about the human component, right? We do. We talk about it. But now it's time for us to expand that and bring attention to the human component. We talk about, teams should be happy, the happiness metric. What is the happiness metric right now for our BIPOC?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. That's a very good question. All right. That's a very good question.

Lizzy:

What is it? And we have to work on that. Let's get that happy metric up and do what we need to do. Two years ago, consistently, people were coming to us and going, "When are you guys going to do a black scrum thing, we need to have a black thing for us." And you know, I really rejected it. "What, what do you want to do that for?" And I just couldn't really necessarily get behind it. Although people kept coming to us, because obviously we represent... It's kind of like, "Well, you guys should lead it. You guys should start it." But now I'm seeing lots of grass root movement stuff, right? Black Agile group. Melanated Agile.

Dr. Dave:

Yes, Melanated Agile is beautiful, I love that group.

Lizzy:

Right! Again, because why is that having to be formed? Because there's still not the comfort that we welcome in the space. I never understood when I came to America why there was a black component to every white thing that existed. I thought it was the weirdest thing ever. I was like, "Well, why do a black one, and then there's a white one? Huh? Why didn't I just want, isn't it the same kind of thing?" And I used to be confused by it. I'm not confused by it now.

Dr. Dave:

That's wonderful.

Lizzy:

Not at all, because nobody wants to walk into a room where they're always the foreigner.

Dr. Dave:

Yes. You're the alien in the group. You're the alien and it's like, no one wants that.

Lizzy:

Nobody wants that. Everybody wants to feel a sense of belonging. So it's up to us as an Agile community, as Agile influencers ,to create a space where everybody feels a sense of belonging, like they feel their home. You know when you know somebody really well, and you are friends. You can go to their house, you can go in their fridge and you can sit back and just kick the breeze, right?

Dr. Dave:

That's it. Yep.

Lizzy:

That's what we're talking about when we're talking about inclusivity. I should feel like I belong, not like you've given me permission to be here.

Dr. Dave:

Without a doubt. But you know what? I just want to say, thank you so much for sharing today and giving so much of you to what's going on. This is really, really important for us to have more and more of these conversations and-

Lizzy:

Thanks for inviting me. When all this stuff happened, I made a conscious decision that I was willing to open my mouth and voice my opinion.

Dr. Dave:

Likewise. And thank you.

Lizzy:

Right. And that's why we're doing it. So, it's that intention that I am actioning, why I'm sharing things and opening up. It's not because I want anybody to see me as victimized, but I want people to understand that, if I can tell you I feel this way, this is what's happened to me, these are the things that have been going on with me on the inside. How many people do you know who are feeling these things and having these thoughts that haven't told you?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. We have to lead, and we have to lead to be very intentional about what we're doing.

Lizzy:

Yeah. And we're leading with vulnerability here. So we are committed to having the courage to stay open about our vulnerabilities, the things we normally hide behind our professional personas. We're now saying, "Okay, we're going to take that mask off, and this is all of me. I want you to accept all that I am. Because if you don't, then you don't get my brain, you don't get my creativity." Because you can't dice me up. Go and take this of you, but I don't want that part.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. Got to allow our whole selves to come to work.

Lizzy:

We talk about authenticity. Well, in order to facilitate true authenticity, we have to facilitate true inclusivity. So, then you can get people being authentic because you're creating a place where it's safe. It's not safe right now.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. It really isn't. And it's not just psychological safety, we're talking emotional safety as well. And in some cases, physical safety.

Lizzy:

Yeah. We are, we really are. That is something that we have to be concerned about. It's something I have to be concerned about for my children. And when you think... There was something I wrote a couple of days ago, Elizabeth, I think her last name is Labetha? Does these really, really amazing posts that really amplify the injustices and things that people go through. And I commented on one of her posts because it just made me cry. It just like brought me to tears. And I had said this once in one of our conversations, the conversations I had with Trisha, I said, "If blacks could at least be treated at the same level that whites treat their pets"-

Dr. Dave:

Oh, I heard you say that, I'm like "Don't say it!"

Lizzy:

I know, it makes you cringe doesn't it? Every time I say it.

Dr. Dave:

I'm like "Ahhh".

Lizzy:

Right? We would be at a much better place and have a better leap, a shorter leap to get to. Now the fact that I can say that, and it triggers you every time I say it, but then I have to use something like that, that that is more important to society than we are. That's what we're talking about. It's those harsh realities. And that's what our white colleagues have got to understand. What was her name now? I've blocked out her name. But the lady who called the police in the park.

Dr. Dave:

Oh, Karen or whatever her name was.

Lizzy:

Her last name was Cooper. I remember that.

Dr. Dave:

I think so. I blocked her out.

Lizzy:

And they came and charged her because she was holding her dog like that. And they came and took the animal.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, for animal cruelty. Yeah.

Lizzy:

Right?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Lizzy:

But if, and here's the thing I think is really important. It so happened that the black male that she went after was an affluential black male. So he has connections.

Dr. Dave:

And tools.

Lizzy:

Okay. What if it wasn't-

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Lizzy:

Because we know whether we're professional or not, the first thing people see is the packaging. And then you are accosted based on the packaging. What happens to me is the packaging is seen, and then I open my mouth, they go, this is a comment, "Oh, you're different." So then I get different treatment. But if I don't open my mouth at all, the treatments consistent. Meaning-

Dr. Dave:

That is a fact-

Lizzy:

It's still seen that if you came from here and if you're one of our blacks, we're going to treat you any which way we want to. Because there's still the concept of "We own you." And that's really what's at the root of it. So it's kind of like every time your property says, "No, you don't own me. I'm equal to you." "No, you're not."

Lizzy:

Because what's wired in the brain is, your house can't tell you it's equal to you. Your chair can't tell you it's equal to you. Who's talking about... "You're something I use. You are a resource."

Lizzy:

Now, in our Agile community, we hate the word resource being put with people.

Dr. Dave:

That's correct.

Lizzy:

Right, we hate that. But wired in the brain is the fact that blacks are resources. So what do we do, so we can make sure we get the best out of the resources and keep them as resources? So it's kind of that goal. That goal that somebody had when they had their meeting to figure out how they're going to make this thing work. "Okay, they're free, but hey." That's what we're fighting against.

Dr. Dave:

Well, you're fighting a counterculture, because one culture says all men are created equal, but not if you were a descendant of one of those people, so let me create different rules that affect you in a very different way. And if you watch 13th, which talks about the 13th amendment and all of the different rules that they came up with, it's like, "Hey, we're going to create every different types of policies that would limit the ability for you to be human." And that's what it is.

Lizzy:

I know, that's what it comes down to you. And unless you have had the privilege to have been well-educated and studied some of these things, you have no idea what you're coming up against. And so it's easier. And now I understand why so many people stay in welfare, stay in the ghetto. It's easier because sometimes the fight is just too much.

Dr. Dave:

The pain. It's not even a fight. It's the sustained pain that it's not even just physical. It's emotional, it's spiritual. It's at that core level that it impacts you and I, as other human beings. So, that is what it is-

Lizzy:

I think it's why we're probably more religious, right? That's probably why blacks are more religious than many other races. Tuned into spirituality because it's the one thing we can pull on for strength and survival. I mean, I know I have been rinsing some gospel music during this time. For real, rinse and repeat, rinse repeat, rinse repeat. Can't tell you the last time I kind of put my foot in a church, even prior to COVID, but that gospel music has been playing quite heavy because-

Dr. Dave:

It's a start-

Lizzy:

You know what I mean? Because it's kind of like, you need that "Phew."

Dr. Dave:

Yep. Well, I put my foot in church all the time. It's my thing, it's the foundation for me, that helps me cope. And it's okay. You know, for all of us who do, and even for those who don't, I have great hope that they will get there one day.

Lizzy:

Well, I've always believed this, and I come from a long line of preachers.

Dr. Dave:

Yes, you come from Jamaica.

Lizzy:

I come from a long line of Ministers. I've always, in my heart I believe this, that at some point there is an intervention. And a lot of times we're looking for "Who's our savior? Who's going to come?" But I think in every generation, there's a David, there's a Samson that rises up. But now what we're looking at is a collective coming together to form the Davids, to form the Samsons, who will go out there and they will wage war with the system.

Lizzy:

And I want to be very clear when I say this, cause I don't want people to say I'm inciting people to go murdering. I'm not talking about that kind of war. So please be very clear when you go back to say, "Lizzie said." Lizzie is talking about a warring against a system, which means they have to understand the system to be able to fight the system.

Lizzy:

So we're talking about a grouping of intellectual people who can peel through laws, and who can read, and who can see between the lines. And have collaborative units of people have this knowledge and experience and able to share it and equip people, so that we start to make the change happen. Because if we get enough laws on the books, then we have enough precedence, and that's what we're going to have to do.

Lizzy:

So when it comes to our community, we need precedence of behaviors, habits, and start doing the principles and making them real. And when it comes to our community at large, beyond our community into our world, we need to start having laws on the books that make humanity a reality. Not just a concept.